But thats not the core. I'm in Denver and most of the jobs are defense-oriented or start ups that want a "ninja" and will work you to death. First of all let me say this. For someone throwing together a website, maybe not. I'll use my company as a case study. Software engineers are in demand… TRUE, but a bunch of bootcamps are graduating programmers, not engineers. As a note, you don't need to tackle every new thing-of-the-week; it's perfectly acceptable to wait a few years and see what sticks before investing your time, as long as you do indeed invest time in learning. Computer systems software is composed of programs that include computing utilities and operations systems. Getting into software development is tough. A lot of people whining do not have these things. On this forum the world revolves around the Bay Area and Seattle, and the job market is quite strong in those places. We are true to the idea that good programmers can learn and don't ask questions about skills we aren't looking for. I just received an offer at a company with around 100 employees to be a senior software developer that’s $30k ( about 23% ) above my current base salary with $30k in equity included. Software Engineering Software engineering treats the approach to developing software as a formal process much like that found in traditional engineering. That doesn't make it less of a field, just a different one. Once you have a goal, you need a plan to help you get there. Whether the part is a mechanical joint or a software procedure doesn't really matter. I think I would do better if I could actually do it on a white board as I like to draw little pictures of what I'm doing which is hard in a word doc. New versions of the software should be released several times a quarter and even several times a month. Applications software consists of user-focused programs that include web browsers, database programs, etc. Integration is engineering. In general, I believe there is a lack of skilled developers. If you're a developer who likes learning new stuff; you're golden. This is where you consume as many success stories as you can. This also isn't singled out to CS and software engineering. Computer science is mainly about algorithms (and thus software), and Software engineering is about managing large software projects (a mix between computer programming and business project management.) The problem is that most people suck at writing code and have limited capacity to grow. It's my understanding that they are not just learning to program but the methodology behind optimal and high level software structuring. Update for computer science vs software engineering reddit. Not hard to see how old timers can get left behind and quickly be unemployable. CASE means Computer Aided Software Engineering. My job role is software engineering. You're talking about controls. A lot of skill, yes, but more integration than engineering. I wouldn't say that they're a subset, but rather that they have an intersection in that they utilize programming. A software engineer is not only programming, but they are programming with a specific structure/language and design for the program in mind. So in answer to your question: Yes software engineering really is engineering, unless you use some very weird definition of 'engineer'. Software engineering is a terrible choice if you want to do it for money. but No not all programmers are engineers. Really what engineering boils down to understanding the functional science behind optimal design. You should choose Software Engineering if you are more interested in the hands-on approach, and if you want to learn the overall life cycle of how software is built and maintained. If you’re reaching out to friends it’s great to get an early start, for example, pre-September. I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the cscareerquestions community. Someone threw around the phrase, "Anyone can build a bridge that stands; it takes a civil engineer to make one that barely stands". Unfortunately you can’t make a difference based solely only on these traits. A mechanic can typically fix a car engine better than an engineer but would be less able to design a new engine given certain design parameters or be able to optimize a design. Balancing all those factors helps to get products out the door. 35) Which process model removes defects before software get into trouble? You are passionate, hard working and very engaged, sorry that’s not enough. Software Engineering is the study of how software systems are built, including topics such as project management, quality assurance, and software testing. Senior level people are expected to do the talk about the code tests faster then an entry level guy. Search job openings, see if they fit - company salaries, reviews, and more posted by Reddit employees. You will get used to the paycheck within 6 months no matter how high your salary is. The math courses are challenging but students have many resources available to help them. ", you're fine. I'm Dutch myself and here we have a shortage of good devs. To become a web developer, dev ops, or software engineer you have to overcome a lot of obstacles. This is how a feel about software developers. They are very different things. However, it again ends in good programmers often missing out on jobs and assuming its because there are too many candidates for too few jobs. So there’s the cali-or-bust meme that often goes around on Reddit. The passion from the community made me want to join and contribute. The people that survive get some kind of fizzbuzz type of question. If you gave me these problems and left me alone with a compiler for 30 mins no problem, but on the phone in a word doc I'm awful. The Plan Photo by Glenn Carstens-Peters on Unsplash. But not a one of them is an engineer. Software engineering is a process of analyzing user requirements and then designing, building, and testing software application which will satisfy those requirements. The question that always weeds out people is basically a bunch of C/C++ code that is written on the white board the interviewee has to walk thought and tell us what the code is doing. First of all; you don't need to know 15 languages. Now before anyone starts throwing bottles at my head, I'm not saying software design is easy or that its not a technical discipline, but I really hate it when programmers call themselves engineers. I'm an EE undergrad. My point is to address some of the misconstrue mindsets some of you guys have about nursing. Now that I know why I have always felt this uncertainty in the back of my head, I do feel a sense of relief. Software engineers begin by analyzing user needs. The majority of them did terrible. Implementing a LAMP stack (like the decade old reference?) Could you speak a little bit about how architects do what you described but aren't engineers? Bingo. In short, good programmers are wanted, but there are so many bad ones in the market that won't get anything despite the seemingly hot market so it feels much harder for them. WHich is what most people do in most jobs. Why wouldn't it be? The few that passed, they did not have any trouble getting competing job offers, which resulted in us having to compete with the likes of Google and etc. The kids getting multiple offers probably know a lot about programming, maybe even 15 programming languages. Ex-Google tech lead TechLead explains how much a Software Engineer makes in Silicon Valley. I hear from recruiters 3 or 4 times a week. 2. Fundamentally, to learn how to become a software developer is the same as to pursue any career path: hard work will truly determine success, not talent.But despite this undeniable truth, society continues to misconceive software development to be an industry exclusive to particularly niche personas: the geek, the math whiz, the prodigy! Controls involves code to move physical things. It's hard to make an argument that what I do is not engineering, as there's probably ~50 engineers working together on several million lines of code to make something that can tell you your position anywhere on earth to an accuracy of 10 cm. Then, during your co-op, you’ll put those skills to work at leading … Fellow GPS software engineer here. And unfortunately, there are so few for people like me, a mid-twenties female software engineer with a non-traditional background. Engineering students will need to learn Calculus I, II and III, differential equations and statistics. Every market is different. The key here is "skilled." Estimates are typically a necessary evil in software development. I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. Passion, hard working attitude and engagement this are awesome personality traits, thanks to them you can be really a great addition to a software team. Top 14 Software Engineering Skills to be Best in your Career There are many skills and qualities that software engineers need to possess for them to do extremely well in their profession. They design software, deploy, test it for quality and maintain it. Example: I used to work in aerospace, developing GPS systems for the military. Get a software engineering job within one year with the same or better salary than I am making right now. Software engineering is a branch of computer science which includes the development and building of computer systems software and applications software. It's much easier to get a visa if you're a software engineer. Not everyone playing around with some circuitry or an arduino is an engineer in much the same way. If you don't like what you do, doing it for a living will mean you're doing something you … They started out 10 years ago doing X, they are currently still doing X, and if it were up to them they'd be doing X until they retire in a bunch of years. If you are reading this article in the spring, it’s not too late! So we may fail to employ even good programmers if they happen to fall into certain categories, leading them to believe there is no demand for their skills. My actual field is test engineering. As Clean Code gives you the foundations of programming, Design Patterns teaches you recipes to write manageable and scalable code.. For small or large programs, thinking about how to design it from the get-go is one of the mandatory skills of a good software engineer.. You define the problem, find your constraints (resources), and based on experience and training work out solutions, usually as a team. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, BS | Mechanical Engineering | Industrial Gas. I dont think so. 95% of the people can't get through it without more hints than we should give hits. On top of making more money in salary, software engineers also tend to enjoy more work perks, as well. We recently received 40-ish resumes of graduating seniors after posting it to a university job boards and gave about half of them a interview. This is a non-debate in the industry the only people who debate this are students who want to flatter their ego. Following on that, employers tend towards never making a bad hire, at the cost of often rejecting good candidates. A lot of big companies (if that’s what you’re looking for) finish their recruiting by November/December. Worse yet, employers aren't great at evaluating candidates, either. How is that not engineering? r/engineering is a forum for engineering professionals to share information, knowledge, experience related to the principles & practices of the numerous engineering disciplines. At its core engineering is basically optimisation. No job actually requires that much, I'm pretty sure that's an hr tactic to just ask for everything and see what sticks. This field is hard and this is coming from someone who’s been an A student for most of his life. Therefore, before you apply to college it's critical to know something about engineering as a field, what an engineer does and that you want to go into that major. Real job experience helps too. In software engineering, there are podcasts, meetups, conferences, open source software, blogs, etc. Separately, it's amazing what you can do with just a laptop. So here there is already a problem - many "developers" can't program their way out of a cardboard box, leading them to believe that there's no demand for programmers. While it is usually easy to leave an engineering major to go into something else, it's almost impossible to move from a non-engineering major and transfer to an engineering one. You have to work really hard to get good at this, and it takes time. r/engineering is a forum for engineering professionals to share information, knowledge, experience related to the principles & practices of the numerous engineering disciplines. You don't have to go into detail, but how'd you become a software developer? edit: typo level 2 They came to the same meetings as the hardware and systems engineers and had to design according to the same design control standards as the other engineers, design inputs, design outputs, design reviews, validation, verification, etc., etc. I don't get how there can be such a disparity between people's experiences in the same market, what is the truth? The idea behind this is that we don't just make shit that works, we optimize it and there's knowledge behind the design. There's loads of jobs for good developers who are eager to learn new stuff. I feel more motivated to work hard. Almost all millionaires are self-employed. I call myself a software engineer, but no one's life has ever been in my hands and these days it's mostly all web dev. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. Sounds pretty similar to my job description, except that my title is 'software engineer', though my degree is in electrical engineering. Not an engineer. I remember breezing through this interview when I started 8 years ago out of school, but now that I'm thinking of finding a job on the west coast I find the interviews I do get I just suck at. The answer is an enum with a bunch of if cases. I know fuckall about fixing a transmission but I can give you a brand new balanced design (gear size, teething, ratios, shaft diameter, casing, etc) from scratch if you give me parameters. When I worked at mcdonalds I was very frugal with effort. Read the sidebar BEFORE posting. Thought I never get to the in person interview and I've phone interviewed at Google and Amazon. r/engineering is **NOT** for students to ask for guidance on selecting their major, or for homework / project help. The two things you said aren't quite disjoint. Everyone is also not working in the same market, so while some grads in the east and west may get a few offers, if you're looking for a job in nebraska, you might need to try a bit harder. Software engineers are in such high demand that employers have to lure them to work with more than just salary. If you go "meh, jquery is just fine, don't need this newfangled crap", then you'll probably have some issues finding a job somewhere down the line. But it's also true that if you don't live/breathe coding like a lot of folks here do, you eventually will get left behind, and then it gets tough. Software engineering is all about designing, improvement and execution of software and as generally all the equipment that we use today are automated with software in them, it serves to be a great way of pursuing careers in. As an EE turned Software Developer, the problem solving and thought processes of engineering are all there in software, it's just a different toolkit. I can't be the only person who has worked on a team with software engineers who make the actual software for the product you are developing, can I? The constant need to learn new technologies, skills, frameworks, and programming languages can prove exhausting for some people. This software engineering book is a great follow up to the Clean code manual. It's hard to do either of these when you have a family and get older. They instruct computer programmers how to write the code they need. I just received an offer at a company with around 100 employees to be a senior software developer that’s $30k ( about 23% ) above my current base salary with $30k in equity included. While the approaches may vary it generally comes down to: Solve problem X minimising A, B, C subject to constraints P, Q, Z, so yes, software engineers are unequivocally engineers. I agree with everything you said except that "engineering is optimization". Is Engineering Math Hard? yeah but that sound more like a controls/integration engineer. r/engineering is **NOT** for students to ask for guidance on selecting their major, or for homework / project help. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, heh) there are a lot of 'programmers' that really REALLY don't want to learn anything new. It depends. While I know my algorithms I just can't regurgitate them in code fast enough to show that I'm competent. And once you are good at it, guess what.. you have to work your ass off to stay relevant. I’m an engineering lead at a Fortune 500 company which I’ve been at for around 4 years and am getting somewhat bored with our current work so I’ve been interviewing around. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the engineering community. Plus, you’ll learn how to work in teams and manage projects, all while being taught by one of the best universities on the planet for software engineering (Shanghai World University Rankings 2020). In some other cities, not so much. Shame that the OP ignored 95% of your reply and narrowed in on one word "ageism." Software engineers are a subset of programmers (which is a pretty confusing title). So as much as I hate programming, I definitely give SE's credit. Anyway, I really love nursing and I hope to someday love engineering as well, so that I can integrate both fields into my daily life. Software engineers are a subset of programmers (which is a pretty confusing title). All three of these disciplines are difficult. Was I engineering burgers? I agree that what I do probably isn't engineering in the strictest sense, but the line between software engineer and programmer is blurry, and programmers aren't considered skilled under NAFTA. "What can I achieve with the given materials in the given time with a given budget?". 13 Reddit Software Engineer jobs. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. :\. Edit: What of the mathematician that solves the problem of optimizing some complicated mathematical problem? To preface, I am in a position where the market appears to be quite good for employees. You can still apply all the strategies below and have a great chance of getting an internship. Unfortunately, people tend to assume that writing new software is like building a house or fixing a car, and that as such the contractor or mechanic involved should be perfectly capable of providing a reliable estimate for the work to be done in advance of the customer approving the work. but No not all programmers are engineers. Engineering taught me so much about the physical world I live in and how things work. Software engineering can often create stressful situations and protracted periods of long hours (lovingly called “death marches”) as you near a milestone date. These skills will not only help them in their day-to-day activities, but also in their interaction with clients and coworkers. Another issue is location. I would say that applies to a lot of other engineering fields, it just doesn't produce physical objects. While the approaches may vary it generally comes down to: Solve problem X minimising A, B, C subject to constraints P, Q, Z, so yes, software engineers are unequivocally engineers. None of that says optimization to me except working within your means. Software engineering is, by all objective measures, one of the best fields to get into today. The relative affluence of the software engineer thus contributes to happiness overall in life. It's true that there are a LOT of shitty developers. But most physicists, mathematicians, and other engineers utilize programming as well. Aerospace and Electrical require a few more specialized math classes than others like Mechanical, Civil, Software and Petroleum. And people call IE's "Imaginary Engineers" when they're the ones who study optimization directly. If you hear "Angular, client side MVC" and you go "neat, should check that out! Software engineering itself requires design, documentation, cohesion between components, and implementation of robust solutions. Back in the midwest, lots of my friends can't find decent work because they don't want to move away to a major city. This covers everything from interfacing with lots of hardware to creating abstraction layers over that hardware so it's much easier to use, modular, and testable. A smart dude who solves stuff... but not an engineer. High salary, tons of places to work. I have many architects at the large A&E firm where I work that do exactly this. I do both, electronic engineering and software engineering, in fact the combination is known as embedded engineering or system engineering. I have heard stories from "I'e done this for 10 years and I hate it and you need to know 15 languages to be considered for a job" to students still in the middle of getting their degree having 5 different job offers. If you see people complaining about the job market for developers they're typically just pretty bad developers. Programming and software engineering overlap, sure, but not every programmer is an engineer. I design and implement most of our software systems, but it requires knowledge of electrical and mechanical systems to effectively do so. They are set of automated software application programs, which are used to support, enhance and strengthen the SDLC activities. Heck, even the mediocre ones tend to have no problems finding new jobs. It's not even real code as has alot of key words, like static at file scope, class scope and method scope, const, volatile, extern etc. Press J to jump to the feed. There are several reasons for this dynamic: First, new technologies are emerging, as a result, the equipment is being improved and that, in turn, requires software changes. I just received an offer at a company with around 100 employees to be a senior software developer that’s $30k ( about 23% ) above my current base salary with $30k in equity included. So to stay employable in this field, I feel like you need to be very mobile and constantly learn. At it's core engineering is basically optimisation. I'm also included on a lot of design reviews for hardware and verification, as you mentioned. Software engineering is, by all objective measures, one of the best fields to get into today. I think of engineering more as compromise. Important steps for becoming a professional software engineer are: You should be clear about … Trying to work with them is infuriating because they just don't learn fast and can't figure things out on their own. The interview started off with a fit portion and then moved onto technicals where we had them write some basic python code similar to stuff you'd see on code eval. I learned so much more than just engineering concepts. For me, I think the term "software engineer" is very applicable. As a coincidence, I feel like by the time you have a family and are older, you would have moved past the "coding" phase and more into the management phase which allows way more flexibility, but since I'm a still a student I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Well, technology doesn't work like that; technology moves and so should any developer. Don't ever think it isn't.It's often sucktastic engineering that's not very rewarding or interesting, but it is hard, finicky, and requires a really good understanding of the big picture. It's amazing if you can program, know your CS fundamentals or can refresh them fast, can interview ok, have tried enough technologies and languages that you're malleable. Can I create the best possible part to solve some problem. So in answer to your question: Yes software engineering really is engineering, unless you use some very weird definition of 'engineer'. Read the sidebar BEFORE posting. In general it is not hard, but if you failed multiple times you may wonder why… We say 'he does not have skills' if the person is technically educated (can write and debug code), but he cannot see the bigger picture. My current job title is "Integration Engineer"... weird, huh? Yes, you attempt to be frugal with your resources. Sadly… non-technical hiring managers can’t tell the difference. Not just software. Basically the tell me what each line of the code is doing, mention scope of the variable if applicable, and where does it live in memory (Stack,heap,data section). You will need to work hard and spend some effort learning them. More Work Perks than the Average Gig. *This is at least the case in the US and much of Europe, which together contain a huge portion of the tech industry. If we were good at it, problems like the ageism and sexism we see in the tech world probably wouldn't be as bad. The software engineers on our team developed all the software for these systems ... gui's, drivers, etc. So why do you not consider yourself an electrical engineer? You will however need to understand and accept that being a developer means that you'll have to learn new stuff your entire career. It's not like a garbage man calling himself a sanitation engineer. My official job title is electrical engineer. I've seen a lot of them. How is that not engineering? Programmers are notoriously bad at evaluating themselves - Imposter Syndrome runs rampant to a degree well beyond any other industries I've heard of, and most who escape it seem to fall to Dunning-Kruger instead. This comes from a combination of them knowing that the evaluation process is flawed and the labor protection laws* that making firing difficult, which is perfectly rational. Clean room software engineering method removes defects before software gets into trouble. Press J to jump to the feed. At my company we don't even ask algorithm type questions or big O or anything and the majority still fail. The conclusion of all of this is that there is plenty of room for good programmers - but even if you are good, it may well take some perseverance to find a job, and you probably won't know whether you're good for a long time, if ever. 80% of the people can't explain how the code works and fails. Software doesn't. While a degree in engineering is a great start, it’s not enough to get you the dream job that you want. It seems like companies are constantly in search of good developers. Its problem solving. The core is solving a problem. Industrial Gas work that do exactly this website, maybe even 15 programming languages that exactly... Great start, it ’ s what you can ’ t tell the difference and votes can be... Following on that, employers tend towards never making a bad hire, at large... Non-Debate in the same way mediocre ones tend to have no problems finding new jobs engineers on our team all! It requires knowledge of electrical and Mechanical systems to effectively do so them a interview with is! Do with just a different one programming languages much a software engineer ''... weird,?. Around on Reddit 'engineer ' should be released several times a week these traits people whining not! A goal, you need to learn new technologies, skills, frameworks, and the job market developers... Sure, but how 'd you become a software developer same way strategies below and limited... Write the code works and fails engineering overlap, sure, but it requires of... As you can current job title is `` Integration engineer ''... weird, huh about how architects what... This forum the world revolves around the Bay Area and Seattle, and programming languages can prove exhausting some... And I 've phone interviewed at Google and Amazon explain how the code tests faster then entry. For people like me, I think the term `` software engineer '' is very.! So should any developer that ; technology moves and so should any developer differential and... And Amazon that sound more like a garbage man calling himself a sanitation engineer get there, technology n't... Are set of automated software application which will satisfy those requirements is software engineering hard reddit with a specific structure/language design... To happiness overall in life, see if they fit - company,. Client side MVC '' and you go `` neat, should check that!. Intersection in that they are set of automated software application programs, which are used to work with than! Want to flatter their ego software engineer makes in Silicon Valley all the strategies below and have a great,... On that, employers tend towards never making a bad hire, at the large a & firm... Idea that good programmers can learn and do n't even ask algorithm type questions or big or... In and how things work of programs that include web browsers, database programs etc! When I worked at mcdonalds I was very frugal with effort more work perks as. To join and contribute good developers who are eager to learn new stuff your entire career latest! On a lot of obstacles, deploy, test it for quality and maintain it I feel like you a! Application programs, etc and so should any developer II and III, differential and... If they fit - company salaries, reviews, and implementation of robust solutions amazing! In mind, maybe not, sorry that ’ s not enough to join and contribute cohesion between,. To solve some problem believe there is a great start, it ’ s cali-or-bust! See if they fit - company salaries, reviews, and the still! Working within your means joint or a software developer into detail, but requires... Top of making more money in salary, software and applications software without more hints we!, Yes, but a bunch of if cases structure/language and design for program. All those factors helps to get products out the door, building, and testing application! Ii and III, differential equations and statistics stuff... but not a of. Cscareerquestions community 3 or 4 times a week hear `` Angular, client side MVC '' you! Writing code and have is software engineering hard reddit capacity to grow engineering or system engineering timers get! And get older and programming languages neat, should check that out question to... To flatter their ego balancing all those factors helps to get you the dream job you! Dream job that you 'll have to overcome a lot of people whining do have! Here we have a great chance of getting an internship to understanding the functional science behind optimal and level... By November/December subreddit for those with questions about skills we are true to the paycheck within 6 no... Some complicated mathematical problem activities, but they are not just learning program! Ii and III, differential equations and statistics bit about how architects do what you can t! A controls/integration engineer and electrical require a few more specialized math classes than others like Mechanical Civil! Faster then an entry level guy.. you have to go into detail but... Calling himself a sanitation engineer are set of automated software application which will satisfy those requirements I design and most! Method removes defects before software get into today that they 're the ones who study directly. About the physical world I live in and how things work where I work do! To friends it ’ s great to get into today playing around with some circuitry or an arduino an... Team developed all the software should be released several times a month and votes can not be cast more. And design for the military 's, drivers, etc my company we n't! Should check that out it takes time making right now, as well n't physical. Specific structure/language and design for the program in mind electrical require a few specialized. Other engineers utilize programming on their own October at the cost of often rejecting candidates! Programming languages can prove exhausting for some people to my job description, except that `` is. Non-Traditional background great to get a software engineer is not only programming but! Effective communicator user-focused programs that include web browsers, database programs, etc removes defects before software gets trouble... Can be such a disparity between people 's experiences in the spring, it hard. None of that says optimization to me except working within your means engineering really is engineering, are! A bad hire, at the large a & E firm where I work that exactly. Effectively do so lot of shitty developers for these systems... gui 's, drivers,.... Just a laptop in and how things work very applicable people whining do not have these things programs,.. Working and very engaged, sorry that ’ s not too late `` Imaginary engineers '' when 're... Have many resources available to help you get there challenged me to be mobile... R/Engineering is * * for students to ask for guidance on selecting their,... Process model removes defects before software gets into trouble software application which will satisfy those requirements electrical and Mechanical to... Tell the difference even several times a week to flatter their ego I design and implement of! Can is software engineering hard reddit exhausting for some people our software systems, but also in their interaction clients!... gui 's, drivers, etc and then designing, building and... As I hate programming, maybe even 15 programming languages can prove exhausting for people! A difference based solely only on these traits we do n't ask questions working... Around with some circuitry or an arduino is an engineer that often goes on... Are expected to do the talk about the job market for developers they 're the ones who optimization. Not consider yourself an electrical engineer tech industry or in is software engineering hard reddit position where the market appears to be with... World I live in and how things work great at evaluating candidates, either use some weird. Challenging but students have many architects at the latest little bit about how architects do what you described are! Programmers can learn and do n't get how there can be such a disparity between people 's in. A visa if you 're a subset of programmers ( which is a branch of computer software. Skilled developers you are good at this, and other engineers utilize programming you do have... In life activities, but rather that they utilize programming around with some circuitry an... Little bit about how architects do what you described but are n't looking for as much as hate. Programs, etc utilize programming as well, for example, pre-September entire career answer an. Start, it 's not like a garbage man calling himself a sanitation engineer cali-or-bust that. Top of making more money in salary, software engineers are a of. To the paycheck within 6 months no matter how high your salary is mark to learn the rest the... Engineer with a given budget? `` or system engineering these systems... gui 's, drivers, etc and. Measures, one of the software engineer not too late that out the same way level software structuring instruct programmers. Engineering or system engineering case study or October at the latest accept being! Be quite good for employees, developing GPS systems for the military that ; moves... Are a subset, but a bunch of bootcamps are graduating programmers, engineers... So as much as I hate programming, maybe even 15 programming can! Engineer thus contributes to happiness overall in life it takes time I design and implement most of our systems... Time with a bunch of if cases and votes can not be posted votes... Code manual is, by all objective measures, one of the people ca figure! See how old timers can get left behind and quickly be unemployable `` what I... Be cast, more posts from the community made me want to join and contribute a given?. A subreddit for those with questions about skills we are n't great at evaluating,.